Some Things Fogn
(Eingestellt am 8. Februar 2025, 04:53 Uhr von pdyxs)
Some things are fogn, and others are wrogn
On the heels of Whispers in the mist, I had a fun idea of how yin-yang fog could be used in a wrogn puzzle. Here is that puzzle.
Like most wrogn puzzles, it's a bit of a grab bag of constraints, but should be fairly approachable if you're familliar with each of those constraints. Let me know how you find it!
Rules
Sudoku: Fill the grid with digits 1 to 9, so that each digit occurs exactly once in every row, every column and every 3x3 box.
Yin Yang Fog: The grid is covered in fog. Once the puzzle is completed, any unshaded cells will be revealed, and shaded cells will still be covered in fog. All shaded cells are orthogonally connected, all unshaded cells are orthogonally connected and no 2x2 region is entirely shaded or entirely unshaded.
Clearing Fog: Entering the correct digit in an unshaded cell will clear the fog in that cell, and in any adjacent unshaded cells.
Some Things Wrogn: Clues that are in unshaded cells are wrogn - that is, they are not 100% correct. Cells connected to the same clue must either be all shaded or all unshaded. When the fog lifts on an unshaded cell, it may reveal new clues, which will also be wrogn.
Some Things Fogn: Clues that are in shaded cells are correct. Entering the correct digit into a shaded cell will reveal no fog.
Clues:
- Kropki: Digits connected by a white dot are consecutive. When digits are connected by a black (or hollow) dot, one is double the other
- Region Sum lines: Region boundaries separate a thick solid line into segments, each of which sum to the same number
- German Whispers: Adjacent digits along a hollow line must differ by at least 5
- Arrows: Digits along an arrow sum to the digit in the (thicker) circle
- Counting circles: A digit N in a circle (including the arrow circles) appears in circles exactly N times
- A given digit has the value shown
More Experimental Fog puzzles:
Lösungscode: Code will be revealed in SudokuPad when the puzzle is completed
Kommentare
am 14. Februar 2025, 07:44 Uhr von pdyxs
Some rules clarifications
am 10. Februar 2025, 17:11 Uhr von VitP
rules clarifications.
for puzzles of this sort, where you rely on the very PRECISE meaning of the words, it's important to be very precise (and complete) when stating the rules.
but first, let's consider the TYPES of "wrogn" clues.
a) single-cell clues. eg. odd/even
b) 2-cell clues. eg. kropki
c) global clues. eg. region sum lines, because the ENTIRE line needs to be evaluated, otherwise it is meaningless.
where this matters for this puzzle is german whispers lines, because they are, FUNDAMENTALLY, 2-cell clues, but you have to ASSUME that they are GLOBAL clues, otherwise you (probably) can't solve the puzzle.
what these rules need to state explicitly:
1) whether "wrogn" means "even slightly wrong" or "the OPPOSITE of right". this was done.
2) "entering the correct digit in a shaded cell has no effect" - missing
3) "clues in shaded (fog) cells are correct" - missing.
4) "ALL clues are permanently in effect, even after clearing fog" - helpful
5) "large circles are counting circles; small circles are dots" - helpful, but not strictly necessary, because you can't put a digit into a dot.
6) "NOTE that the symbols used are non-standard" - very helpful
am 10. Februar 2025, 15:00 Uhr von VitP
for nemefish (i have no idea how to do a proper "reply" in this forum):
your point tripped me up for a long time, but it is "easily" resolved:
a) at the first, critical, occurrence, you have to place a digit N in counting circles in the "true clue" part of the grid. therefore, you may only use circles that are seen at the start, and there is only ONE way to do it.
then you have to consider what happens if you place that N in a circle in the "false clue" part of the grid, whether or not those circles are seen at the start. but as soon as you do that, you break the previous condition. in general, you cannot mix tc and fc counting circles to satisfy a total count of N, because that always creates a self-contradiction.
b) a similar question occurs at least a couple of times later in the solve. there's no good way of answering it then. so ... do sudoku ! and the problem goes away.
am 10. Februar 2025, 14:43 Uhr von VitP
this is definitely a HUZZAH puzzle.
and don't ask me how many mistakes i made to get there. definitely worth the trip.
i will say this: you have to be a yin/yang expert to even get started. but anyone can become a yin/yang expert with 5 min of proper training. after that, you just need to apply basic sudoku, and basic reasoning. therefore, the puzzle remains "approachable".
the hardest logic occurs just after completing the bulk of the colouring. it goes like this:
a) if C is true, then F.
b) if D is true, then not F.
c) therefore, C not = D.
d) therefore, C is false.
and if you can follow that, do this puzzle.
______________
the rules should be polished, and i will post that separately.
am 10. Februar 2025, 05:11 Uhr von compiling
I found the trickiest part was understanding the rules (I wasn't sure if the hollow or solid dots were black or what wrong counting circles mean).
am 9. Februar 2025, 23:48 Uhr von Nemefish
I liked a lot of this puzzle. Many good ideas. I have not see a potential liar given digit before. I was not a fan. I also think the combination of potentially lying counting circles and fog does not mesh well since the user cannot make deductions about circles in unseen cells. This may be a case of Coco Chanels rule. "Before leaving the house, take one thing off." I do love Yin Yang sudoku and hybrids. I thought the liars were a fun twist.
am 8. Februar 2025, 10:06 Uhr von gdc
Lots of fresh ideas in this one and surprisingly approachable for a liar puzzle.
am 8. Februar 2025, 05:19 Uhr von pdyxs
Adding a tagline :P
am 8. Februar 2025, 04:58 Uhr von pdyxs
small link fix
