Logic Masters Deutschland e.V.

am 9. Oktober 2024, 19:16 Uhr von bodemeister
Holy cow this thing got solved?!!!

am 7. Oktober 2024, 16:06 Uhr von filuta
hmmm

am 7. Oktober 2024, 16:00 Uhr von PrimeWeasel
Piece of cake

am 3. August 2024, 19:25 Uhr von SKORP17
seit wann ist 1 eine Primzahl?
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(Again, Google Translate -- backtranslation looks ok)
Ich bitte um Entschuldigung, ich wollte nicht andeuten, dass das Rätsel auf dem Irrtum beruht, dass 1 eine Primzahl ist. Mit „interessant“ meine ich, dass es sich lohnt, darüber nachzudenken, wie man vom Problem zum fertigen Sudoku-Gitter (oder einem fertigen Sudoku-Gitter) gelangt, aber letztendlich ist bisher keine der vorgeschlagenen Hypothesen eine tatsächliche Überlegung für das Rätsel

am 26. Juli 2024, 20:14 Uhr von Kafkapharnaum
(@SKORPY17, Google Translate -- backtranslation looks ok)
Vielen Dank für Ihr Interesse an diesem Rätsel! Ich nehme an, Sie haben Ihre Antwort in den anderen Kommentaren gefunden, aber ich habe Ihre Hypothese gesehen und kann trotzdem antworten. Es ist interessant, aber ich denke, dass es am hilfreichsten ist, sich die Tags anzusehen, um einen ersten Eindruck von diesem Rätsel zu bekommen (das heißt, es ist auch hilfreich, sich das Beispielraster anzusehen). Es gibt viele Schritte und es ist durchaus möglich, *einige* davon in einer anderen Reihenfolge zu entdecken als jemand anderes :-)

am 23. Juli 2024, 11:17 Uhr von wullemuus
This one really makes me curious!
I guess "UNCLEAR" is the solution code of the example puzzle. Is this correct?
When clicking on the lowest picture, a Penpa sheet is created. Is this the puzzle to solve for the solution code?
The first passage is repeated below in a form that could be copied-hmmm ... .
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Hello! Apologies for the delay in replying, just too much work these days. Glad to hear you're intrigued by this one! There's not supposed to be any hints for it though hehe, but I did try and nudge the other would-be solvers I guess, so I'll say that yes, UNCLEAR is the solution code of the 7x7 example; no, the little orb is not the main puzzle, but a 'testing ground' of sorts, that was added on at the very end, and also brings a number of elements of interest; and yep, the repeat is for copy and paste!
Observation (of *every* detail) and intuition will be huge in this one, as there are many 'meta' clues in it (understood as clues that appeal to previous and/or general knowledge). Good luck!
(In the interest of fairness to the other solvers, I will unhide this comment :-)

am 16. Juli 2024, 22:59 Uhr von aresquibel
@Sanabas, I might have found something interesting. UNCLEAR. Each letter's position in the alphabet: U: 21, N: 2, C: 3, L: 12, E: 5, A: 1, R: 18. I found a way to break down each numerical position into a 1-7 digit. And it seems to be forced...

U: 21
21 factors into 3 and 7. We assign U to 7 because 3 is represented by C and 3 is prime.

N: 14
14 factors into 7 and 2, but we must assign N to 2 because we have to assign U to 7.

C: 3
We must assign C to 3 because 3 is prime.

L: 12
12 factors into 2,3,4,6,12. Since 2 and 3 are taken and 12 isn't an option, we are left with 4 and 6. It must be 4 because R must be 6 (as we'll see).

E: 5
E is assigned to 5 because 5 is prime.

A: 1
A is assigned to 1 because 1 is prime.

R: 18
18 factors into 2,3,6,9. It can't be 2 or 3 or 9. It must be 6 (which, again, forces L to be 4).

It could be nothing... but I'm wondering if these are the numbers of the regions... and maybe they give us a way to assign the letters to the regions... anywho... just a thought.
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Hi! I'm taking the liberty to reply to your comment to Sanabas as I think collab will simply be too awkward in this way. First, you might want to look at my latest reply, to wullemuus, as I think I might have phrased some things a bit better this time, about some elements, so maybe that'll help. But regarding your comment specifically, want I can say is, a good question to ask is, as interesting as a specific hypothesis might seem, do you think you'll be able to apply it comfortably to the 9x9 grid? :O

am 13. Juli 2024, 18:23 Uhr von sanabas
Just came back for another play with this, and saw @aresquibel's comments...
"So, I have noticed another thing. The arrows bookending the alphabet seem to be indicating that the alphabet loops around? If we think of it as a loop, then we find that there are 14 = 7*2 symbols between the bent arrow symbol and the big star. On the “real” puzzle, the same reasoning gives 18 = 9*2 symbols between"

That is an interesting idea that I had missed.

"some of the tags of the puzzle are in themselves meta-clues. I think it's fair to mention as this is a fair bit out of the puzzle's page, so to speak, and likely not too many solvers would think of using that as a stepping stone :-) "

You mentioned that before, but I didn't get anywhere thinking about it. You mean the tags english knowledge/meta/mystery/instructionless/alien, or trying to dive into the html of the page itself? I assume the former.

"It also seems like the crypticness of the symbols is drawing everybody's entire attention, when the grid itself is an important part of the example puzzle that so far has been rather neglected by everybody! :O"

I couldn't get anything out of it, other than presumably the code needs to tell us where the region borders go. Stuff I thought about didn't seem to be helpful.

Does make sense that the first long string of 21+28 (and 36+45 in the larger one) might somehow encode 1 digit per symbol, and the 2nd string of 13 (and then 17) segments might somehow define regions.
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Hi! Glad to hear you're back to look at it, yet not letting yourself get all tangled in it, that's what I was hoping people would do :-)
It's so interesting to me to see how some things I was worried would be immediately obvious to everybody are proving so elusive, goes to show how skewed our perception of our own puzzles can get
It's tough, confirming or not the various hypotheses or giving hints in a way that wouldn't just spill it, but I think I have something
First, a sequence of sorts, from things that have already been mentioned in all of the exchanges/comments:
Alphabet, Images, _______
Also, one of the puzzles that was an inspiration for this one (note that it is an 'inspiration', not that it outright lifted its idea intact :), that should provide at least some insight into what's going on here:
https://logic-masters.de/Raetselportal/Raetsel/zeigen.php?id=000FO2
Then I can also refer to my own puzzle Meta-Icing, though again, I hesitate to do that as while there is SOME slight resemblances maybe, these puzzles are NOT the same. But we're all about deepening insights here :-)
Hope that'll help. Thanks a lot again for your interest in this one!

am 3. Juli 2024, 17:15 Uhr von aresquibel
Thanks for commenting, Kafka. Feel free to just delete my comments if they give too much away. I would love for someone to pick up on my work and blaze forward though. I’m dying to know what this means.

So, I have noticed another thing. The arrows bookending the alphabet seem to be indicating that the alphabet loops around? If we think of it as a loop, then we find that there are 14 = 7*2 symbols between the bent arrow symbol and the big star. On the “real” puzzle, the same reasoning gives 18 = 9*2 symbols between the symbol that looks like a bug and the symbol that looks like a snake around a stick. Which makes me think that the V symbol is a kind of partitioning of the “loop.”

And, yes, I get nested vibes with the repeat of the quotes… that’s why I said that… it feels like you’re starting with 26 ordered symbols and breaking them into 7-length or 9-length loops to work with for the sudokus… but I’m not sure how or even if that’s what’s happening.

As for UNCLEAR… still very unclear to me… but since you’re using the same black arrow, it makes me think that you’re indicating that the move(s) from the symbols to the sudoku is the same as the sudoku to UNCLEAR
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Hello again! I think for now it's fine to just leave the comments in full view, though eventually I'll probably make them hidden comments (you'll get notifs when I do even if there's no new reply)
So, well, from your comments, it certainly sounds like you're making good progress, but I think some elements might still be understudied. For example, in one of your comments, you mentioned having noticed a discrepancy that you thought might be an error. Have you given that more thought, and also, have you maybe noticed other such discrepancies?
Another thing I could say that is maybe a much bigger hint, is that some of the tags of the puzzle are in themselves meta-clues. I think it's fair to mention as this is a fair bit out of the puzzle's page, so to speak, and likely not too many solvers would think of using that as a stepping stone :-)
It also seems like the crypticness of the symbols is drawing everybody's entire attention, when the grid itself is an important part of the example puzzle that so far has been rather neglected by everybody! :O

am 1. Juli 2024, 20:30 Uhr von aresquibel
SPOILER ALERT! (possibly)

Interesting observations:

(1) there are 26 unique strange symbols; (2) there are 7 unique letters in "UNCLEAR"; (3) the "equals" sign in the sphere is upside down; (4) in the middle chunk of the first section, there are 49 symbols between the two "V" symbols; -- and yet all 26 symbols are represented; (5) in the bottom chunk of the same section, there are again 49 symbols -- again, all 26 symbols are represented -- though, not the same number of times...

Current working theory:

The first section is a kind of Rosetta Stone (as hinted at by the author). In the first section, we're seeing two "transformations"; hence, the two big fancy things at the very top. The symbol "instructions" map onto the completed 7x7 sudoku, which, in turn maps back onto the symbol-y instructions; hence, the white arrow over black. The author, I think, is telling us that both objects can be created from the information in the other. Also, there are 49 boxes in the 7x7 sudoku, and there are 49 symbols between the two Vs. I'm guessing that this isn't a coincidence? Perhaps each little square in the sudoku corresponds to a symbol?

Now, the 7x7 sudoku maps to UNCLEAR, but not the other way around; in other words, we can get UNCLEAR from the 7x7 sudoku, but we can't necessarily get the sudoku from UNCLEAR. Also, since UNCLEAR contains 7 unique letters, I'm guess that they correspond to the numbers 1-7. And so, we have a composition of functions, sorta... Somehow, we should be able to derive UNCLEAR from the weird symbols...

Now, there are three symbols that are not included in the alphabet... the "union" symbol in quotes, the V symbol, and the arrows that bookend the alphabet... I'm guessing that these are operations?

And that's all I have so far... Any ideas???
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Hello and thanks once again for your interest in cracking this one :D Unfortunately I think you posted your comment at a busy time and it got quickly pushed out of the front page... :/ So I'll be the one to try and maybe nudge you in the right direction without giving anything away
I'll start with your very first comment, that you had deleted, cause I had had time to read it, just not to reply. In it you mentioned "nesting", or things being nested or some such. The validity of it could depend on interpretation, but have you given that more thought? Cause it certainly seemed like you were onto something there
I see too that you have wondered about non-alphabet symbols, well done. Have you tried working many possible hypotheses regarding those?
You have wondered too about the solution of the 7x7, which is...?... What do you make of what the solution is, in essence?

am 27. Juni 2024, 12:04 Uhr von sanabas
This is intriguing, but not sure I'm ever going to crack it. Just going to think aloud here while I look at it.

actually, I think I may have gotten somewhere, so I'm going to think aloud in a hidden comment...
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That is funny, with the hidden comment, I totally missed this one. I realize it was made *before*, yet I still want to say, it's perfectly fine to let this one simmer in the back of your mind, or to just give a quick look every now and then, cause otherwise, going off on a wrong/fruitless tangent could lead to huge time losses and frustration. Careful observation of every detail is key in this one before even starting to hack at it
And then of course, it's also perfectly fine to just move on to other things altogether :-) This one is posted now and is not going anywhere (there shouldn't be anything wrong with it, all it requires is putting all the different elements together)

am 22. Juni 2024, 15:35 Uhr von Fisherman
A puzzle from Andromeda Galaxy. Dr Kafka, we are peace loving people who love clarity. Translation please.
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Haha, I can understand that, but it's very much in the spirit of the puzzle to have this seemingly impenetrable facade. And while there's definitely a sudoku component, it's also a deciphering puzzle, made as an attempt to evoke Champollion/the Rosetta Stone, or maybe more play like a videogame of sorts, that kind of thing. I'll absolutely understand if this stays at 0 solve, as one, it IS deliberately quite cryptic AND actually made as an attempt to dumbfound!

It's also meant as a no-hint, no-help puzzle, but I did consider recommending people to team up to look at/work different aspects, and also to not view it as something that must be solved in one session necessarily (there's a lot to figure out), but more something to look at a few minutes each day till something jumps at you. In any case, thanks for looking at it and for your comment! :-)

am 20. Juni 2024, 21:25 Uhr von Kafkapharnaum
(It would seem like this presentation is not mobile friendly at all... but this puzzle is not made for mobile anyhow. Still, if anybody knows how to make the presentation consistent between computer and mobile, this help would be greatly appreciated!)
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ED1: (Reduced font size in an attempt to make it at least a little more mobile friendlier. CP!)
ED2: (Didn't work, giving up)