bigger inner sandwich
(Eingestellt am 17. April 2022, 22:10 Uhr von bigger)
The idea comes from Ore.
Standard sudoku rules applies. Fill the grid with numbers from 1 to 9 so each digit occurs exactly once in every row, column and 3x3 box.
Digit on the arrow is one of digit(s) of the sum between one of the 1(s) and one of the 9(s) in the arrow direction.
All possible arrows are given
Don’t worry about it. There’s a safety on. So there’s a high chance you might miss a possibility and still solve it. I know I know some may ask what’s the rule. I mean even in Chinese it’s a little bit confusing. One reaction is that I know every word, and it seems to make sense, but I don’t get it. Well, read it slower, construct your own scenario. Once you get the hang of it, the puzzle will solve itself.
Let me be honest, I did not expect to develop an idea from an setter I didn’t notice that much as the first. And sandwich, that’s the one variant that is very close to star battle(one reason why a lot of us don’t like it, no way an empty grid). I don’t think the setter realize what he did. Sandwich is a small section in the double digit outside clue variant. If sandwich is possible then the other is also possible. X-sum for example, or parity party can all be disassembled in this way, which can leads to some really interesting outcome, as what I will show next.
About this puzzle, it raised some interesting question. When a negative restraint apply to all direction, what differs the diagonal and the non-diagonal? Exactly what makes people more scared to check the diagonal? Is there something more than calculation in the sandwiches? Actually, you might find some tricks looks exactly the same as the self-killer or some sandwich(I don’t remember the name, but there’s definitely a lot, maybe picnic or lunch box, too ramdom for me to remember). BTW, i couldn’t think of a better naming for this variant, so I just use the most uninspiring naming of all. Mine has diagonal while Old Miles’ has order. There’s no way I could find a way to name both of these.
Lösungscode: row 5 and column 5(18 digits)
Kommentare
am 19. April 2022, 20:00 Uhr von marcmees
agree with filuta: great & tricky. Enjoyed that one a lot. Thanks.
am 18. April 2022, 23:12 Uhr von Ore
Thanks for the puzzle!
You also raise some interesting questions in last two puzzles.
Inner X-sum variant could be really interesting, especially that you can put 2 X-sums to one row/column.
In your previous puzzle you mentioned possibility of a puzzle constructed from only sandwich diagonals. I thought about this variant too. Probably it could work for "biggest-smallest" outer numbers instead of standard "1-9". For example: if there are numbers 425372 in a diagonal, the sandwich sum could be 8 or 0. There could be also used "the sandwich sum from the point of view" as in my previous puzzle.
bigger:you could try, but I won't. one reason is that naming is so hard and neither I nor Old Miles knows that much about sandwich. as for x-sum, no. i think x-sum varint is way too much. i want to at least see if thermo or jigsaw has a chance in variant. i might do x-sum at some point. but I believe even in the future, I don't like calculation heavy variant, namely the 456 in x sum.
another reason is that my intuition told me it might not be fun for me. only diagonal sounds so like little killer. the biggest and smallest would render a lot diagonal 19 tricks useless, which means solvers would more likely not use the diagonal, and it's a little bit too cheesy for my taste. It's the whole skyscraper after 1 or n problem again.
anyway, the question I raised is for future me. i need to at least record some of my thought so when I look back, I will know.
am 18. April 2022, 21:53 Uhr von kolot
Very beautiful puzzle! The use of the negative constraint is wonderful! However, the difficulty is definitely bigger than 2 stars, it was around 4.5~5 stars for me.
bigger:really? I really don't think so. because Old Miles solve it, so it's definitely below 3 star. and the next one don't have a safety, so this one is so a 2 star.
if you don't believe me, try to evaulate each step you take. I didn't put any big structure. and the solution path is not narrow at all. also, because I set the puzzle, it also means I have to solve it multiple times, it's not going to get harder each time I solve it.
also, try think of it this way, if this puzzle is a 4 star, what would a 1 star be like and how to evaluate puzzles that are harder than this one. should there be a 10 star system. it happened before, we overestimate a lot of puzzles Old Miles made in 2017, which is another story for some day. But what I did learn is that a puzzle need to be judged by its replayability. i really don't want future me call me weak for thinking it hard.
kolot: I should have expressed my opinion about the difficulty of the puzzle in a better way. Saying something about its level for everyone and using the word “definitely” was too much. I am sorry for that. I should have said “Its difficulty is around 4.5~5 star for me and I guess it will recieve a rating bigger than 2 stars.” The level of a puzzle differs from solver to solver. I have recently solved a puzzle by tallcat and rated it as 2 stars because it was really straightforward for me. Then it received a 4 star rating and that was surprising for me. I don’t know what other solvers found hard with that puzzle. I kind of have an opposite feeling with this puzzle. I haven’t solved any puzzle with this rule set before and it took me some time to figure out how to approach the puzzle. I also made a mistake at some point and broke the puzzle, then had to go a few steps back. Maybe, I shouldn’t count the time I wasted because of that mistake, but anyway it was not an easy puzzle for me. I agree that there isn’t any extremely hard step in the solution path but it took me time to understand which clue I am supposed to look next. I will really be surprised if this puzzle is rated as 2 stars. Anyway, I think it is a very beautiful puzzle and I enjoyed it a lot.
bigger: don't worry about the rating on my puzzles. i like it blue. for me, it's the third puzzle with a similiar rule, Ore's, Old Miles' and mine. A lot od deductions are instantaneous. if it won't for their puzzles, I would mark this one a 3 star.
Maybe think it this way, if your rating is higher than mine, it definitely means I find a solution path that's easy for me. vice versa. isn't that the point for blue star, showing what the setter thinks about his puzzle. otherwise, why bother. Also, in my standard, 4 star means it annoys me. this puzzle just not tedious enough to annoy me. figuring out what I think about this puzzle is way easier than figuring out what the others think.
am 18. April 2022, 19:22 Uhr von kolot
@filuta, thank you!
am 18. April 2022, 18:58 Uhr von filuta
@kolot: I made this one when I was solving it, no guarantees https://tinyurl.com/2s3txeby
am 18. April 2022, 17:37 Uhr von kolot
Could someone provide a link for this puzzle?
am 18. April 2022, 16:17 Uhr von filuta
I don't know what is funnier, whether the ruleset, or your commentary. The puzzle itself is absolutaly great and also tricky as hell.
am 18. April 2022, 05:49 Uhr von bigger
fix solution code
am 18. April 2022, 01:48 Uhr von Piatato
Very nice puzzle! And thanks a lot for not laying a lot of traps, haha! I think I solved the puzzle correctly, but the code doesn’t work. I’m sure I may have overlooked something, but would you mind doublechecking the code, please? :)
bigger:oops, my bad. I use the wrong puzzle solution code.
