Sometimes Always Never True #1
(Published on 10. June 2020, 05:22 by RockyRoer)
Thank you so much for trying out this puzzle. I am new to puzzle creation, so please let me know whatever feedback you can to make these easy to understand.
The Rules:
- Standard sudoku rules apply.
- Standard killer sudoku rules apply, but the sums in each cage are sometimes true if they contain a 5, always true if they contain a 1, and never true if they contain a 9. Sums that are wrong are off by 1.
- Every cage contains either a 1, 5, or 9, and not more than one.
For example:
- A cage can not contain 1, 5, 6, and 7 (only one 1, 5 or 9 allowed)
- A cage can not contain 3, 4, 7 (no 1, 5 or 9)
- A cage can not contain 3, 4, 5, and 4 (no repeated numbers allowed in a cage)
- The numbers on the outside of the grid are the sum of the cells "sandwiched" in between the 1 and the 9. Note, this sum could possibly be true or off by one, if it contains a 5.
The Puzzle:
Solution code: Enter the 2nd column from top to bottom followed by the 5th row from left to right with no spaces or symbols in between.
Comments
on 14. August 2024, 14:00 by isajo4002
That was hard to wrap my head around.
Reply: It's tricky aint it? Nice work. Thanks for the solve! By the way, if you enjoyed this kinda 'hard to wrap mind around' you might be interested in "Masquerade" id=0003WC
on 14. July 2024, 05:04 by RockyRoer
Updated links and picture
on 11. June 2020, 03:59 by RockyRoer
reworded solution code clue.
on 10. June 2020, 14:28 by RockyRoer
Added online link thanks to @Mosti_Mo
on 10. June 2020, 14:15 by Mosti_Mo
Thanks for correcting it :)
Maybe you can add: https://tinyurl.com/y88nl92p for online solving :)
on 10. June 2020, 13:50 by RockyRoer
Fixed error in the puzzle and added german translation:
on 10. June 2020, 13:33 by Luigi
Hm, 1,5 and 9 may not be together.
The 1 has to be true.
In the center 3x3 grid are three 2cellcages. The 1 has to be in one of these. (Every cage contains a 1,5 or 9)But that is not possible.
Reply: Thanks Luigi! You've been very helpful! I posted a fix to this.
on 10. June 2020, 13:30 by RockyRoer
Working on a fix to an error in puzzle. Will repost shortly.
on 10. June 2020, 13:27 by SirWoezel
@Luigi Ah, but the nine always lies and the 5 sometimes lies...
on 10. June 2020, 13:24 by Mosti_Mo
@RockyRoer: As a SW Engineer I love the idea of OBO, so thanks for that :) But I have a question: if the sum is definitly wrong, can it contain 1 in the right sum, which will make it always true in this case? So for example: if the cage sum is 8 and I cannot use a 5, but I can use a 1 and 6, this cage becomes a Schrödinger's cage :) where it's true and false at the same time. What is the rule here? :)
Reply: if you KNOW a sum is false, it cannot have a 1 in it, but must contain a 5 or a 9.
If the cage sum is 8, then the possible fills are 1 and 7, 5 and 2, 5 and 3, or 5 and 4.
on 10. June 2020, 13:21 by Luigi
There must be a mistake somewhere!
In every cage there must be a 1,5 or 9.
In the center 3x3 grid are three cages (15, 6, 10). One of these must contain a 1.
In the 6cage this would mean 1 and 5, which is not allowed.
In the 10 cage this would mean 1 and 9, which is not allowed either.
in the 15cage the 1 is not possible.
Reply: Grr... you're right. I split a cage to disambiuguate a clue and forgot that it needed a 1 5 or 9 in it. I'm deactivating this temporarily until i can find a fix.
on 10. June 2020, 12:29 by glum_hippo
You don't need the 'English required' tag. Here is a translation of your text for the German side (will require formatting):
Es gelten die üblichen Sudoku-Regeln.
Es gelten die üblichen Killer-Sudoku-Regeln, aber die Käfigsummen sind <u>manchmal</u> richtig, wenn sie eine 5 enthalten, <u>immer</u> richtig, wenn sie eine 1 enthalten, und <u>nie</u> richtig, wenn sie eine 9 enthalten. Summen, die falsch sind, sind um 1 daneben ('knapp daneben').
Jeder Käfig enthält entweder eine 1, 5 oder 9, aber nicht mehr als eine. Zum Beispiel:
Ein Käfig kann nicht aus 1, 5, 6, und 7 bestehen (nur eine 1, 5 oder 9 erlaubt)
Ein Käfig kann nicht aus 3, 4, 7 bestehen (es fehlt 1, 5 oder 9)
Ein Käfig kann nicht aus 3, 4, 5, und 4 bestehen (keine wiederholte Ziffern)
Zahlen am Rand sind die Summen der Ziffern, die zwischen 1 und 9 liegen in der jeweiligen Reihe/Spalte. Auch hier könnte die Summe knapp daneben sein, wenn eine 5 vorhanden ist, oder muss knapp daneben sein, wenn eine 9.
You should also add the 'knapp daneben' tag (the +/- 1 symbol)... believe it or not, some people are drawn to these like moths to a flame!
Reply: Thank you! I made those changes and hope it turned out ok?
on 10. June 2020, 12:23 by SirWoezel
@glum_hippo I guess it means the clue is sometimes one off if there is a 5 in the _box_. And likewise, the sandwich sum could be one off if there's a 5 between the 1 and the 9?
Reply: This is correct. The sandwhich clues will never contain a 1 or 9 (because they are the crust) but they might have a 5 in between, in which case they might be true or false. If they don't contain a 5, then they are true. HINT: the sandwich shouldn't be necessary until the end to disambiguate a few things. Even then, I've given more sandwich's than necessary, but perhaps they will double-check some things along the way.
on 10. June 2020, 12:12 by glum_hippo
Is a '9' sandwich never true? I don't see a sandwich sum that contains a 5...
Reply: see note on other comment... but you won't know if it contains a 5 between the 1 and 9 until you deduce that fact later.
